Melatonin In Breastmilk

Do you know what melatonin is and what it does?

How about circadian rhythm??

Does your baby have either one of these things?  Tune in to find out how breastfeeding can help.

If you are a new listener, we would love to hear from you.  Please consider leaving us a review on itunes or sending us an email with your suggestions and comments to badassbreastfeedingpodcast@gmail.com

WE HAVE TRANSCRIPTS!!  You can also add your email to our list and have episodes sent right to your inbox!

 
Things we talked about:

What is melatonin [7:59]

Circadian rhythm [8:54]

Breastfed babies sleep longer (really)  [11:07]

Babies don’t have circadian rhythm [12:15]

How the milk changes in the evening with melatonin [18:51]

Reducing colic [19:34]

Pumped milk and melatonin [21:39]

It’s so helpful to know why your baby is doing what they are doing [27:13]
 

*This Episode is sponsored by Original Sprout and Fairhaven Health

Links to information we discussed or episodes you should check out!

https://www.llli.org/breast-milks-circadian-rhythms-2/

https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com/episode/082-nighttime-breastfeeding-with-tracy-cassels-phd-evolutionary-parenting/

Set up your consultation with Dianne

https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com/consultations/     

Check out Dianne’s blog here~

https://diannecassidyconsulting.com/milklytheblog/

Don’t Forget!!  Dianne and Abby have started the new parenting podcast!  Check out Revolution Parenting!  

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1755123/8400508

Follow our Podcast~

• https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com

Here is how you can connect with Dianne and Abby~

• Abby Theuring  https://www.thebadassbreastfeeder.com
• Dianne Cassidy http://www.diannecassidyconsulting.com

Music we use~

Music: "Levels of Greatness" from "We Used to Paint Stars in the Sky (2012)" courtesy of Scott Holmes at freemusicarchive.org/music/Scott Holmes

Transcript

dianne (00:21):

[inaudible] Hey, welcome to The badass breastfeeding podcast. This is Dianne, your lactation consultant,

abby (00:27):

and I'm Abby, the badass breastfeeder. And today's episode is brought to you by Fair Haven health. If you leak breast milk, you can now stop losing it to your breast pad and instead collect it to add to your stash. And today's episode is also brought to you by original sprout., Original sprout carries safe, effective, and pediatrician, tested shampoos, conditioners, styling, and body care products produced and packaged in California USA. Uh, we'll hear more from our sponsors later, um, but our sponsors make this podcast possible, but so you can head to badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com and check out all of our sponsors on our sponsor page. And if you need anything, see if you can give them any of your business. And while you're there, scroll down and enter your email address and we'll send episodes straight to your inbox every Monday. And now Dianne has our review of the week.

dianne (01:17):

and it comes from badassbreastfeedingpodcast@gmail.com. And this is from Sara. She wanted to thank you. She says, all right, so we've been off for a week. I'm totally off my game here. So let me start again. Hey ladies. So I just wanted to thank you guys for all your information and for keeping it real. I'm a first-time mom due in September. I was not brought up around anyone who breastfed. It's just not something my family did. So I assumed I wouldn't do it. It just didn't seem like it was for me. After listening to a few of your episodes, I went from it's really not for me to, I think I want to give this a try. I feel like I have too much access to information on the internet and it's hard to tell what's true or false. It's a lot, also a lot of fluff. I don't like sugar-coated information. I want the real facts for people who know what they're talking about. Your episode, "Stupid Shit You See on the Internet" was perfect for me. Thank you ladies, for all your help and information. You guys rock Sara.

abby (02:13):

That is so true. There's so much fluff. That's just wrapped up in bad information, you know, to get clicks and likes and, and, you know, cause it's just like information overload. It's really good idea to find like one or two sources that you trust and just stick to that.

dianne (02:29):

Yeah. We say that all the time too, that we, uh, like, you know, when we look around at stuff, I was like, oh my God. And I'm so naive. I'm like, how can people be putting this out there in the world? I know. Yeah. People to read and to follow. It's just unbelievable.

abby (02:45):

Yeah. People don't think about how all this information actually affects people. It's just, you know, here we have a platform, let's just put it out there and say whatever we want and get paid.

dianne (02:55):

Yeah. It's not okay.

abby (02:56):

No, it's just, you know, everyone again, the whole paid thing, you should get paid. But, but the information, especially when it's around breastfeeding and things like that, it's just so wrong. It's like people and people who are, people are saying it like, you can just say whatever you want. Like there's not a body of, you know, research and evidence that is actually correct. And what you're saying is wrong and harmful, you know, people wouldn't go around being like, well, yeah. You know, with brain surgery and just talk about, you know, just like random information about brain surgery. No, no, you kind of, you go to like a brain surgeon to get the correct information about that. And everybody just sort of understands that. But when it comes to like man pregnancy and breastfeeding or any kind of women's health thing, basically, it's just say whatever you want about whatever you want.

dianne (03:49):

Yeah. It's ridiculous. I remember one of the lactation consultants that I used to work with, she was fascinating. She was like, one time she goes, it's like asking the plumber to do the electricity on your house. Yeah. You know, I mean,

abby (04:02):

it's just gonna, it's not gonna work out well.

dianne (04:06):

Right. You want the right information. You want it from the right sources. And sometimes that can be hard to find. Sometimes you really have to search that out. But that's why we really try to give like evidence-based information and sources. That's the first thing I look for when I'm looking at something. First thing I look for is sources. Cause if they're just, there's no sources there. shit There's nothing cited. There's no research behind it. They're just making that up. So I just can't, I can't, it's ridiculous.

abby (04:30):

Yeah. So much of it is made up.

dianne (04:33):

So thank you so much for that review. We love it. Good luck with your baby in September. Be here before you know it and you'll have to let us know how, how everything goes and keep listening. And, uh, today we're going to talk about melatonin. Basically. We're going to talk about sleep again because we talk about it all the time. Yeah. Because it's a real thing. Sleep is So good. We like sleep.

abby (05:02):

People really want sleep

dianne (05:04):

And don't you feel like you'll never sleep when you have a baby.

abby (05:06):

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. You feel like you're never, ever going to be able to just sleep and your body is just sometimes it's just going to sleep against your will because it's so tired.

dianne (05:20):

Oh my gosh. I know. You just feel, it makes you just feel like sick almost, you know, when you don't get enough.

abby (05:25):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It does make you sick. Yeah, it does. We need sleep. However, babies don't agree. And there are times, especially when you have like, you know, babies and young kids where you won't get as much sleep as, you know, the internet, the internet says,

dianne (05:46):

oh my God, freaking internet. When it comes to sleep and babies, there's so much craziness on there.

abby (05:53):

So another thing was also, yeah, it's also so cultural too. Like there's, you know, in our culture, it's like eight hours of a solid eight hours of sleep. You know, you must get that or you're going to die. And like, that's not, that's very cultural. Like there's a lot of cultures where you don't get eight solid hours at night. You know, people take naps course not these, they're not the, you know, capitalist nations that we are right here. Right. Where you have to be at work for 40 hours plus a week. But yeah. Sleep is very cultural too.

dianne (06:28):

It is. And I think it's such a mystery when it comes to babies, you know? Like where, like, why don't they sleep? Why aren't they sleeping? I mean, come on. Where did the phrase 'sleep like a baby' come from? God. And that's just, it's the most ridiculous phrase on the planet. Sleep like a baby. Oh, I'm going to sleep like a baby tonight. Really? What does that even mean?

abby (06:49):

Yeah, that means you're not going to sleep all night.

dianne (06:53):

So there's just a lot of mystery around it too. Like, we really don't know that much about it. And there's all these like sleep consultants and there's, you know, there's all sorts of stuff out there educating you, but really what the bottom line is. It's like babies are individual, just like you are. And everybody sleeps differently. I mean, God, my husband and I, he, he's fine. On a couple of hours, he can function fine on a couple hours of sleep. I cannot. And the older I get, the worse it gets, I swear like it just, I I'm just constantly tired. We're two completely different people. But does that mean we slept exactly the same as babies? No, absolutely not. I don't know why anybody thinks your baby should be getting this much sleep all the time.

abby (07:34):

Yeah. Because we just want to sleep. That's what it comes down to. I think there's also this, I mean, it's also fueled by our doctors too. Right. And they're your baby should be sleeping. Remember my doctor, your baby. Yeah. He should be sleeping 10 to 12 hours at night Now. He was like a couple months old. Like on what planet is this happening? Actually. No, he very much should not be doing that.

dianne (07:59):

Not through no. Oh God. So crazy. So we're going to talk about how melatonin fits in. Right. So if you're not, we're gonna talk about what melatonin is. First of all, did you know melatonin is a hormone?

abby (08:16):

Yes.

dianne (08:16):

I didn't know that because I'm not in touch with my hormones even a little bit. Like I have zero idea what's going on in my body with my hormones, but I thought that was really cool. It's made in your pinal gland and it's a hormone. So it naturally occurs in your milk. Right. So you've naturally got melatonin in your breast milk. So what melatonin does is melatonin is there to like it peaks melatonin peaks when it's dark outside. So it's like, it helps you to kind of like create your circadian. So what your circadian rhythm is. And I never really knew what that was until maybe like the last few years really. Like, you just don't really think about it. You know? Like I remember years ago when I was young, like maybe like 20 or whatever, you know, you could stay up all night or like I would work nights sometimes and work an overnight here and there, but never enough to like, have it be consistent. And it would be like, okay, your circadian rhythms off, you know, it'd be like, well, what does that even mean? Like, how does that work? What does that mean? But all that is is it's your 24 hour cycle. That's part of your body's internal clock and your body gets used to like this, you know, way that it works. And then when that's off, you're kind of messed up, right? Like it's the same thing with like jet lag, you know? Like people get like that with jet lag, their circadian rhythms off. They've been somewhere where they're, you know, the timing is really off. They come home. It's, they're kind of a little bit messed up for a bit. And then you might find that those people actually take melatonin to kind of get their, their ser, their circadian rhythm back into play again. Um, my kids, every once in a while, like one of my, one of my boys, Nathan will take melatonin to help him sleep. Like if he kind of gets into those cycles where he doesn't sleep well, and then he's up a lot. And then he sleeps more during the day, it's like a, you know, that whole cycle, that teenagers kind of get into every once in a while that they live on. So he'll like take melatonin to kind of help him sleep. And whether it's a placebo or not, I don't know. But sometimes it helps them. So the melatonin in your milk actually helps your baby sleep. And people might say like, my baby doesn't sleep. Right. Like, how is this helping my baby? My baby doesn't sleep. So I have these cool notes here. You're going to have to bear with me because I was taking notes on my 16 hour drive yesterday while my husband was driving 80 miles an hour. So I don't even like some of it's kind of messy, but it's really kind of fascinating what the melatonin does in your milk. So like I was saying, it naturally occurs in human milk and it's higher at night, breastfed babies sleep on average 45 minutes longer than formula fed babies. Do that might be something that people disagree with, but that's what the science tells us.

abby (11:31):

Yeah. Because I think at, at first glance, people would say, well, you know, because this is What we talk about with formula, right? We talk about how It's heavier and it makes babies go into a deeper sleep, which is not safe, not safe at all. Right. So we think, oh, well, they're just getting there, but they are getting more sleep. But, but they're not, no, they might be going into a deeper sleep, which is not safe. But overall they're not sleeping more.

dianne (11:59):

No, they're not, they're not sleeping anymore. When it's really all said and done, they're really not sleeping more. And we've known this all along. Like I've seen a lot of research that has, that has said that breastfeeding mothers get more sleep though.

abby (12:13):

Yeah. And co-sleeping too.

dianne (12:15):

Absolutely. Will get you more sleep than babies that are not breastfed or not co- sleeping. So your baby is not born with a circadian rhythm. So they don't know. And you'll hear that when people say, oh, your baby has your days, their days and nights mixed up. Well of course they do.

abby (12:36):

That's So funny, like they were working overnights for a week and now their body is just doesn't. Yeah.

dianne (12:44):

And I mean, your baby has no idea. Like they have no idea what's going on and it'll come out and go, yeah. It's, you know, time to go to bed.

abby (12:51):

It's Wednesday, midnight, I should be sleeping.

dianne (12:54):

They have no idea. They have no circadian rhythm. The melatonin in your breast milk is what helps them to set up a circadian rhythm and what helps them to figure out what is happening with their sleep. And this is really important in the first few weeks, because they're not making their own melatonin. So this is where they're getting their melatonin from. They're getting it from you. The breastfeeding mother, the breastfeeding parent is giving them the melatonin that they need for their circadian rhythm to figure out how to sleep or when to sleep. When is appropriate, time to sleep, what is night and what is day so that they're not going to have their days and nights mixed up. So to speak.

abby (13:39):

like, yeah, I have thinking something mixed up. You have to like, know it to begin with.

dianne (13:44):

That's a really good point,

abby (13:45):

you know, and then get it mixed up, but they're not mixed up. That's just, this is normal. They come out, not on our schedule. Our schedule sucks. First of all, nobody should be on our schedule. There's not, that's not natural. Oh, I hope we all understand that the schedule that we're on in this culture is not healthy. You know, this is not like, you know, it's not like, oh, your baby's not, your baby's not cooperating with your 40 hour work week. And you're no chance to sleep at all. Except for like through the night. That that's not the, we had under understand that we are like operating outside of like our biological norm. Right. So know your baby's not mixed up or messed up. Your baby's actually very healthy.

dianne (14:34):

You know, I had, I used to work with, um, I had a colleague when I worked as a breastfeeding peer counselor coordinator and she was one of the peer counselors and she was kind of, she was just a night owl, you know? And she was one that would just stay up and then sleep in, in the morning. And her daughter who was probably two or three, maybe at the time just had the same pattern. And people really gave her a hard time about that. You know, like, oh my God, your daughter's up half the night. How can you do that? Blah, blah, blah. And she was like, she's on my schedule. Like, what's the problem with that? It's like, they're not everything doesn't have to be so black and white.

abby (15:19):

It's not going to be, and it's not ever going to be. And that's what we're constantly striving for is a black and white situation. And it's never going to be that.

dianne (15:28):

Never, it's just not doing that. You know, it just, it's not going to work that way. Um, so one of the cool things that I learned about melatonin actually, why don't we cover it? Should we cover it after we do our break?

abby (15:40):

Oh yeah, sure. Cause it's about that time. It is about that time. It's about that time. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Today's episode is brought to you by Fair Haven health. Do you leak breast milk? Have you ever thought about how much breast milk you were soaking up into your breast pads and throwing away? What, if you could catch that milk and add it to your stash? Instead, the milkies milk saver allows you to do just that. Slide the milk saver into your bra or tank top on the non-nursing side to catch the letdown While you breastfeed. People are adding ounces upon ounces to their stash on a daily basis, thousands and thousands of breastfeeders have already discovered this product. It holds two ounces of milk it's comfortable to wear and reusable. You might be thinking that you don't leak very much. This is what most people say before. They've actually used the milk saver. You will be shocked at how much milk you collect and how much liquid gold you were throwing into the garbage. This milk can be used to beef up your stash to make breast milk keepsakes for baths, for breast milk, popsicles lotions, soaps, you name it. Breast milk is worth saving. Check out the Milkies milk saver@fairhavenhealth.com. That's F a I R H a V E N. health.com and use code badass for 15% off of your purchase. And today's episode is also brought to you by original sprout. Original sprout carries safe, effective, and pediatrician, tested shampoos, conditioners, styling, and body care products produced and packaged in California USA. The Tahitian collection includes the island bliss shampoo, the lushest Island conditioner, protective protein mist and to Haitian hair oil. These are formulated with oils, such as coconut oil, linseed oil, hohoba oil, Mongo oil, and argon oil. These oils provide extra moisturizing to control frizz, prevent breakage, and restore dry and brittle strands. Leaving your hair, luscious sun shiny and soft. All of original Sprout's products are paraben and phalate free, safe for everyone vegan and cruelty free. They are not just for babies anymore. Check out the entire collection@originalsprout.com and use code badass for 25% off of your purchase. These sponsors and their promo codes can be found in our show notes. Under this episode at badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com our show notes. We'll also include further information about things we talk about in this episode and at badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com, you will also find our breastfeeding resources, all of our other episodes and information about scheduling your very own one-on-one online lactation consultation with Dianne. Yes. Now back to melatonin.

dianne (18:29):

So one other thing that I want to make sure we cover here as I hear it all the time, and I think you probably hear it all the time too, is I don't make as much milk in the evening. I don't have as much milk at night because your baby's like cluster feeding, right? That's just what they do the first couple of months of their lives.

abby (18:46):

Yes. Some people equate that with, there's not enough milk in there. They're frustrated and trying to get milk out.

dianne (18:51):

and it's not, and that's not what's going on. So your milk, we know that your milk changes throughout the day. It's constantly changing depending on what is happening, you know, with your baby. And, you know, obviously like we were saying, melatonin is higher at night. So as the sun goes down, we get into a darker system of the world, wherever you are, then it's going to, your melatonin in your breast milk is going to go up. So the more your baby breastfeeds in the evening, the more they're getting that change as well. So that's a good thing. We want them to get that melatonin. And one of the cool things that melatonin does is it also relaxes the gastrointestinal muscles. Did you know that?

abby (19:33):

I did not know that.

dianne (19:34):

I didn't know that either. I thought that was really, really interesting. So it's serves this melatonin serves as both the hypnotic, so it helps them to sleep, helps to make them tired, helps them to sleep and helps them to with the neurological development of their sleep and wake cycles. But it also relaxes gastrointestinal muscles which can help reduce colic in infants. So we do know that there is less colic in breastfed, infants. I mean, that's something that we all know that's been out there for ever, but nobody knows like necessarily, like it's because of this or it's because of this, probably a lot of different reasons why, but this is one of them, it's that melatonin in your breast milk, which is helping your baby to sleep and to be, have their gut be a little bit more relaxed, their gastrointestinal system. So they're not having stomach aches and stomach issues and things like that overnight and less colic.

abby (20:40):

It's really amazing seeing how intricate just the human existence is and not just human, just, you know, life, all living creatures, everything is just there for a reason. I mean, that's evolution, right? You know, you, it's amazing. We've survived this long because absolutely every single thing connects, completes the puzzle and helps us, you know, survive. And there's no random. There's nothing random, you know, like, oh, melatonin's just there. You know, it's just there. That's just one of the things in your milk. No, there's like reasons for every single thing that's in your milk, that's in your body. That's, you know, going on with you,

dianne (21:24):

these are the little things that can never be duplicated when you create a formula, you know, formulas are very advanced. Now. They really are. They're very advanced, but there are certain things that can not be duplicated.

abby (21:37):

That's true. Yeah.

dianne (21:39):

So another thing that I wanted to definitely touch on, and I don't have an answer for this, I can only give my opinion is pumping. And a lot of the different things that I read talks about labeling your milk so that it's, you know, if you pumped your milk in the evening so that you're giving it in the evening and you know, stuff like that. I, I don't, I mean, I see the point behind that, but I feel like aren't we putting enough pressure on breast and chest feeding parents to pump, you know, pump milk, have it ready for your baby, have it set aside for your baby, having a freezer stash, having to put away, do we really like, does it make that much of a difference here and there, if your baby gets milk that was pumped at night during the day? Like, I mean, yes, it would be great to keep it all consistent, but do we really need to stress our parents out by saying that that's something that they need to do?

abby (22:39):

I know it's too much. I mean, I think, and also this is like, it's such interesting information and of course it's necessary to know it and especially to understand like why your baby's nursing at night, like why, you know why this is all happening because it's so confusing and it's very stressful. Um, especially when you're baby, when you don't know anything, like, you know, most of us, when we go into our first babies, we don't know anything. And the babies that we've always seen on TV or whatever are just sleeping all the time. And then you get, you get one of your own and they don't do that. And it's so crazy and stressful because you don't understand what's happening. Um, and so understanding what's happening is like crucial, I think for us surviving those days and weeks and months. Um, but when we do things that alter that or where we have to start messing with the biology of, you know, it's, it's not, you know, it's, I mean, there are certainly some things that we can do that are harmful, but you know, if you need to pump or that's something that, or even want to pump, and you know, it's not like every single decision that you make that might stray away from, you know, what the exact biology was that humans were doing thousands of years ago or what, you know, your puppy does, you know, you know, these things that don't have to worry about, like our schedules and things like that. Um, it's not always harmful, you know, you know, you're not, if you need to pump and you're giving the stuff that you pumped in the evening in the morning, it's okay. You know, it's not, it's not going to hurt anything. You know, there, it's not just, it's not just the melatonin in your breast milk at night that helps your baby, you know, develop a circadian rhythm. There's a lot of things that go into that. So it's not like if you give the some milk and, you know, in a different time that your baby then will never develop a circadian rhythm, that that's not true. No, we're just talking about the cool things about, you know, breast milk and the role of melatonin. But if you're, you know, if you're hearing this or, you know, you know, we do talk about like pumping and, and how you can and how you have to deal with that and how it's, how it is different than breastfeeding. I mean, it's, it's, it's, if that's something that you need to do, you can still successfully breastfeeding and your baby will still grow up and sleep at night.

dianne (25:12):

Yeah. It's it's okay. They're still gonna get the great components of your breast milk.

abby (25:16):

I mean, the most important thing is that they're getting breast milk. Yeah. It doesn't matter what time of day they're getting it. It's okay.

dianne (25:23):

In the grand scheme of things like these are just the intricate things that we think are kind of cool that we want to make sure that we're sharing, but in the grand scheme of things, whatever amount of breast milk your baby is getting is beneficial. I mean, in so many ways, so that doesn't, it doesn't matter that they got milk pumped at 7:00 PM at 11:00 AM. That's okay. It's not gonna, you know, it's not going to be a big deal. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there are people out there that are really diligent and can organize themselves that way. I am just not one of those people.

abby (26:00):

I mean, yeah. If you want to do that, then sure. That's great. You know, but it's not necessarily, so if you're not, it's not necessary, it's not necessary. Um, it's just cool to understand the biology of it.

dianne (26:13):

Yeah. It is very, very cool. Um, so that's kinda what I have on melatonin. I think it's a really cool, like there was other cool stuff that was coming up in my research about it. Like tryptophan, which also plays a role, which I thought is that's kind of neat too, that tryptophan is in your milk. Um, that's the stuff in Turkey that makes you sleepy. Everybody talks about.

abby (26:33):

everybody always talks about that Thanksgiving. I just ate four gallons of food. And now I'm tired because of the tryptophan. That's why you're tired?

dianne (26:42):

So that is, you know, I think that's, that's kinda neat, but, um, I didn't want to, like, there's just so much to it. You know, there's just so much stuff that goes on in your breast milk, but the sleep part is always a focus for everybody. And I want, you know, I want moms and breastfeeding parents to realize that when your baby is cluster feeding in the evening, they're getting melatonin. That's going to help them sleep better at night.

abby (27:13):

Yeah. Knowing that, I feel like knowing this stuff, the point of knowing it is like, so when you see it happening, you're not like, oh, something's wrong, you see it happening. And you go, oh, everything's right. This is why this is happening. This is why this is happening. And my baby's doing it. And it's not that something is wrong. This is totally normal. This is what they should be doing. This is what we would expect them to be doing because there's nothing, I mean, there's nothing more surprising to any parent than a freaking awake all the time, baby, after you just had this baby, and you're so tired and you're like, Hey, let's go to sleep, baby. And your baby's I, huh? No, we're going to stay awake all the time. And then, you know, I'm going to sleep a little bit here and there. And I'm going to mostly like nurse a lot at night, like through the night, I'm definitely gonna want to nurse a lot. And you're just like, what is happening? This is like, something has to be wrong. That's what I thought that was my first thought something is wrong. The baby doesn't sleep. Something's wrong with this baby. I got a broken one, guys.

dianne (28:20):

He's broken something wrong with your milk. That's always the other thing when really your milk is perfect. It's It's just for what it's supposed to be. That's all you have to say, like trust the process your baby's doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing.

abby (28:33):

Yeah. And the other thing I was thinking of earlier when you were talking, which I forgot to bring up or whatever, um, babies don't make their own melatonin yet. No, they're not making it. We make it for our bodies and it takes time. I don't know what the age is at all, what the age is, but it's, it's not in babyhood or toddlerhood where you're making your own. I remember going through this with Rebecca Michi, you know, as a sleep consultant, um, who I really think we should have on the podcast. She is the sleep consultant that we worked with. Our, our family worked with when Jack was a baby. Um, no, Exley was a baby and Jack was a toddler.

dianne (29:12):

we should have her on.

abby (29:14):

Yeah, we should. And she can, I learned so much from her because she was just one, she explained, you know, sleep and the brain and the melatonin and all this stuff, how it, you know, how all this works together and so much stuff in our environment too, that can, um, you know, that, you know, bright lights and light bulbs and, you know, these kinds of things that, that, um, you know, that can be altered, you know, to kind of help facilitate that like sleep at night. Um, when, you know, when, when she was done explaining this and learning, and now when I was learning about this, she, I, you know, it felt like I just understood so much more of what was going on. And when I started to understand what was happening, that he wasn't broken, you know, that, that, that all of this was quite normal and that there were things that we could do. Um, we did some things, but also just me understanding and my anxiety going down a lot is really when things started to change, because I was like, okay, I really, okay. I get it. Now. I get it. When he starts running around at night, it's not that he needs to burn off energy. It's that this is how kids react when they're tired, you know, adults are like, oh, I'm so tired laying on the couch, kids start running around and they get all hyper.

dianne (30:38):

Yeah. That overstimulation.

abby (30:40):

Yeah. And they are not, they're telling you that they're tired. Not that I know. It was like, we need to wrestle with him. We need to like burn some energy, which is just complete opposite of what he needs. You know, he needs like calm and relaxed people around him. Anyway, this is very much of a rant, um, or just random. But, um, yeah. I mean, when you start to understand these things more, you just get it more. Oh, it just, your anxiety goes down and you can then feel so much better about what's happening.

dianne (31:15):

Yeah. And it doesn't help that you have people around you that are like, your babies should be doing this. Your baby should be doing that. And to know, okay, this is a process. Like my baby's getting what they need from me because their body isn't doing it themselves yet. We expect it. Like we pop them out and we expect them to just like be self-sufficient. And they're not like we just, we expect them to be able to figure out sleep without a circadian rhythm, without melatonin, we fit. We expect them to know how to self-sooth. We expect them to be able to handle themselves on their own feed in all certain ways. It's just, it's, they're not, it's not like babies can't do that. Babies can't pop out and go get a job. Like it's just not working for them.

abby (32:02):

No, they, yeah. They don't have the work skills. They haven't gone to trade school yet. They, they haven't. And this is, I think it just speaks again, volumes to how much breastfeeding is just ignored and misunderstood in our culture. And we have, we do not, and our medical professionals are not taught about it. They're not taught about, you know, any of this, of the biology of breastfeeding and, and even just the natural behavior of birth and, you know, the behaviors of babies. This is a completely misunderstood, um, thing in our culture. We don't have, nobody has this information about, um, you know, breast milk and the role that it plays in infancy and beyond, you know, this is just information that your medical professionals likely do not have at all. And so you get their opinion and what they think and be, and mostly cultural norms, well, your babies should be doing this. This is what we expect. This is what we want. This is what we want the baby to do. So we're going to be saying that this is what they should be doing, you know, when they have absolutely no skills to do it. Right. And it's just be, I think it just speaks so much to how much we don't know.

dianne (33:21):

Right. We, we have no idea, no idea. So there's a little more info for you, kind of some cool stuff, more cool stuff about what's in your breast milk and yeah.

abby (33:35):

You're just like an amazing, um, bad-ass I know just the, I mean, it just, the evidence never doesn't stop. Just like, you know, the evidence about how awesome breast milk is just never, ever stops. It's pretty fascinating. It just keeps coming in, Stick with us, keep learning all the cool things. Thanks, Dianne. Yeah. See, yeah. Bye. Bye. [inaudible].