Clingy Babies

Are you afraid of a clingy baby?

Did someone tell you that your baby is clingy because you breastfeed?

We hate the word clingy.  Listen to this episode to hear more.

If you are a new listener, we would love to hear from you.  Please consider leaving us a review on itunes or sending us an email with your suggestions and comments to badassbreastfeedingpodcast@gmail.com

WE HAVE TRANSCRIPTS!!  You can also add your email to our list and have episodes sent right to your inbox!

Things we talked about:

There’s no such thing as a clingy baby [5:22]

What do we expect from a newborn? [6:08]

The identity shift of becoming a parent [12:14]

Child development [15:36]

Babies are primal [21:26]

It is not a feeding issue [25:08]

Babies who only want the birthing parent [30:22]

Doing it all yourself [31:41]

*This Episode is sponsored by Original Sprout and Sheila Darling Coaching

Links to information we discussed or episodes you should check out!

https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com/episode/breastsleeping/

Set up your consultation with Dianne

https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com/consultations/     

Check out Dianne’s blog here~

https://diannecassidyconsulting.com/milklytheblog/

 
Follow our Podcast~

• https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com

Here is how you can connect with Dianne and Abby~

• Abby Theuring  https://www.thebadassbreastfeeder.com
• Dianne Cassidy http://www.diannecassidyconsulting.com

Music we use~

Music: "Levels of Greatness" from "We Used to Paint Stars in the Sky (2012)" courtesy of Scott Holmes at freemusicarchive.org/music/Scott Holmes

Transcript

dianne (00:00):

Welcome to the Badass Breastfeeding podcast. This is Dianne, your lactation consultant,

Abby (00:25):

and I'm Abby, the badass breastfeeder. And today's episode is brought to you by Sheila Darling Coaching. Sheila Darling is a social worker, certified hypnotherapist and mindfulness meditation teacher, and could be your start to a more peaceful life. And today's episode is also brought to you by original sprout. Original sprout carries safe, effective, pediatrician, tested shampoos, conditioners, styling, and body care products produced and packed in California USA. And we'll hear more from our sponsors later, but, um, head to our sponsor page at badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com and see if you can give any of our sponsors, uh, your business cause they make this podcast happen. And while you're at badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com, you can scroll down and enter your email address into the little form there and get these episodes sent to your inbox every Monday. Um, and now I think Dianne has our review of the week.

dianne (01:17):

I do, and it comes from Gmail. Um, this is from Patricia. She emailed us and she said, my name is Patricia. I am a Spanish teacher in the state of Florida. I came across your podcast about three months into my breastfeeding journey. Looking for some support. I've had many struggles in my journey with many things, but my biggest challenge was fighting off people who kept telling me to stop breastfeeding. They would tell me I was tired and that I should give up. And that I was doing this to myself. I went back to work after one month of giving birth and it has been very difficult to adjust. My husband is extremely supportive of my journey and has reassured me every time I hear the comments. However, I needed to hear some advice from breastfeeding, from breastfeeders themselves. I was about to quit and found your podcast. I've been exclusively breastfeeding my baby for six months, which was my goal when I was pregnant. And now I do not feel pressured to stop at a certain point. My son is very happy, baby. And I'm very happy mama because I listened to your podcast all day, every day and it truly keeps me motivated. I do not have it all figured out and it's still come up with questions every day. But I wanted to say thank you because it's been a huge help. Sincerely Patricia and I cannot even, she went back to work after a month,

Abby (02:28):

Oh my God. Like it's just not okay.

dianne (02:31):

It is not, no, it is absolutely not. Okay. And she's such a badass for doing that and for keeping the breastfeeding going and the naysayers like go away. I don't know what else to say.

Abby (02:43):

Just I know kick rocks.

dianne (02:47):

I think it's eat rocks. Isn't it? Or is it kick rocks?

Abby (02:49):

I think it's kick rocks. Okay. Eat shit and die that too.

dianne (02:57):

Yeah, they can do that too. So she sent this to us through Gmail, which was awesome. I love opening my inbox to stuff like this because it's Better than the junk mail that I received from weirdos who, I don't know, redo my website. And you can also put your review for us on iTunes. That's an amazing way to do it too. It really helps the podcast a lot.

Abby (03:23):

When people are like, I listen to your podcast, almost a binge listening to your podcast. It makes me feel so self-conscious, I'm like, that is a lot of me to listen to. And like what kind of thing did I say? Do you have that thing? When you go to a party and you're like there, and then you spend the rest of the next day going like, Oh my God, what did I say? What did I say? Oh my God. They think I'm an idiot. Oh my God. Yeah. I mean, it's not about me, but I'm always like I, or that feeling inside. I know

dianne (03:51):

People are Bingeing my voice.

Abby (03:57):

People usually need a break from me after a while, but I don't know. Thank you for listening. That's all I'm saying is thank you so much for listening and for spreading it around. Cause I know people are like, Oh, I heard about your podcast from this person. And you know, it's good. Cause we need this information out there. Yeah, we do. And as much as I makes me cringe, I really want everybody to hear what we're saying because we're giving out the good information. Yeah.

dianne (04:20):

Really important. And it, it really, I am proud that we can be able to do this, that it, that we're putting information out there and that you guys are getting the information and that you're sharing it. And I think that's amazing. So thanks.

Abby (04:34):

So today we're talking about clingy babies as if there is such a thing, but people say your baby's so needy, your baby's so clingy you're breastfeeding makes your baby clingy your babies. So, you know, night nursing makes your baby clingy. Clingy. Babies are not, they're not out. They didn't get, get a job I guess, or they're not out, right? They're not independent. Your three month old baby is not independent or whatever stupid concept is.

dianne (05:02):

It drives me crazy. And I, I try to, so one of the biggest things that I want everybody to understand is this is not a breastfeeding problem. This is a baby problem.

Abby (05:12):

This is not a problem! It's normal. It's fucking normal. Sorry. It's normal.

dianne (05:15):

Totally using the wrong word. It is a normal Newborn infant Child thing.

Abby (05:22):

There's no such thing as a clingy baby. There is no such thing. This is a cultural thing in this country. We value like independence, detachment. And you know, when you have these, you know, a normal baby acting like a normal baby, we are like, Oh my God, it's clingy. There's no such thing.

dianne (05:45):

No it doesn't. And I had somebody, I had somebody that has been messaging me on Instagram just this week with her newborn. And you know, he's not hardly at night. He's up all the time. And I'm like, that's, that's not because of breastfeeding. This is just your baby. This is what babies do. Especially newborns, especially newborn.

Abby (06:08):

It's like, what do we expect from a newborn?

dianne (06:10):

We expect to put them down and they're going to go to sleep. That's what everybody thinks is going to happen.

Abby (06:14):

and sleep 10 hours a night by themSelves. And Oh my God, they're crying because they're clingy right.

dianne (06:20):

Like, this is just your baby. Like, well, how long does it last?

Abby (06:25):

FOREVER!!

dianne (06:25):

It will be like, you know, like it's just a normal, it's normal. And then she was like, are you sure this isn't a feeding issue? So you don't think he's still hungry? No, I don't.

Abby (06:38):

No. I can see that always being a concern because people are just always concerned about their babies being hungry. So yeah, it's not, it's like the whole fussy, you know, my baby's fussy after nursing and it does that mean they're not getting enough. No babies are fussy, man. They're fussing and they're clingy. They're fussy babies. They just Got here. They don't know anything. Your body is the only environment that they are adapted to. It's all they know. And so if you're not, if they're not right there, they're like, what the hell? I'm scared. They're like, don't understand what's happening and they'll get fussy because they don't, that's not,

dianne (07:07):

that's how they communicate.

Abby (07:09):

Right. Exactly. They're talking to you

dianne (07:11):

This Is how they communicate with you. And I always feel bad. Like, I don't know what to say. What am I supposed to me Well, what do you do? I just keep putting them to the breast? That's it. I just keep breastfeeding them. I guess that what you suggest I'm exhausted. It was like, I know it's overwhelming.

Abby (07:25):

Well, that's true because we do, You also live in a culture where we don't help anybody. Right? I mean like you have a newborn, you're all on your own. You're you know, there's no, we, we don't have like a sense of real community anymore. There's not this village setting where people are helping. You're just, you're like responsible for the same things that you were responsible for. And now you have a newborn. So it's like, what does Jim Gaffigan is like having a what's it like having a fourth baby? It's like having three babies and then you're drowning and somebody hands you a baby or something.

dianne (07:56):

Oh my God.

Abby (07:58):

It's like, it's, it's just Chaos. And like, it's true. People are exhausted. And that's, again, it's not a feeding issue, but it is a cultural problem. It's a big problem that people don't have the support to deal with normal baby behaviors. And so we kind of like, um, we start to say, well, that's not normal. We kind of pathologize these normal things where like that's not normal or these things that you can do to get your baby to sleep longer, that are dangerous, dangerous, you know, like putting rice cereal in the formula or mixing it in and trying to get your baby to sleep real deep, really early. That stuff is not okay. And there's, you know, there's, there's, um, things that we can do to try to help, you know, with how clingy babies are, cause it is exhausting. And so that's why we talk a lot about bed sharing and baby wearing. And these kinds of things that make it a little bit are, you know, can make it a little bit more manageable than like, you know, trying to keep the baby sleeping in the crib, down the, down the hallway, which you're told you're supposed to do. And that your baby's not supposed to want to be by you so much. I remember I was like carrying jack in carrier one time, like a toddler care. He was older. And um, this, somebody commented on the internet like, uh, like, um, well you need to put them down because they need to learn how to walk. And I was like, what? I don't understand what people are thinking. It's like, don't let your kids play with video games. They need to go outside. Don't let your baby, you know, breastfeed for too, too long. Cause they need to have solid foods. What, what, what world are you living in my kid, play video games and go outside. Why can't they breastfeed and have solid foods? Why can't he be carried around in a carrier and also know how to walk for crying out loud? What is happening?

dianne (09:49):

I don't understand that.

Abby (09:51):

Like, no, he's like, they're, they're just like, Oh my God, that toddlers really close. I swear to God, people don't even think that's weird. It's weird to see somebody being like, so intimately close to another human being. It's a strange people are like uncomfortable with it because it's so like not normal in our culture. It's so sad. If you think about it like a little baby can't even be held without being called clingy. Like that's devastating. That is an absolute devastating state of our culture.

dianne (10:26):

I, I think a lot of the problem is too that we go into these into the, into having a baby with the thought that it's going to be totally different than what it really

Abby (10:38):

Right. And that's how it's presented to us. Right?

dianne (10:40):

Exactly. We put it up, you know, you wrap, I was saying this to somebody the other day, you, you wrap pregnancy in a big bow and we celebrate it with these showers and these presents and all the things that you could ever possibly need that is, you know, like that you can buy. And everybody's like, Oh yeah, it's great. Have a babies. This is going to be so fun. And excuse me,

Abby (11:06):

I thought we got all our clears out before we started.

dianne (11:10):

I totally didn't. I don't know what's going on with that happening. But then you have this baby and you're like, Oh my God, they want to be with me all the time. What is happening? Something's wrong. And then you're, you know, you got family members saying, you've got to put them down. Why are they so clingy? And your pediatrician saying, Oh, you can't, you know, you can't let them nurse to sleep anymore. You can't let them do that. Don't put them in your bed. Don't let them, let him cry for a little bit. It's not going to hurt him. Do this. Like everybody is giving you advice on how to separate yourself from this child that you grew in your body. Like, I don't understand why that is a thing. Why are we celebrating these babies? And then as soon as they come out, we want to separate from them. So I think it's so important that we put it out there. Like, yes, this is going to be exhausting and not in a way where it's like, Oh, you better get some sleep now because when your baby comes, they're not going to sleep. Like that is not the exhausting part. The exhausting part is like, just like you're overwhelmed. You know, you're just overwhelmed with the whole concept of becoming a parent,

Abby (12:14):

you're transitioning to Parenthood as a whole identity shift. It is completely an identity shift.

dianne (12:18):

Exactly. And we do not support that. Like you said, we don't support that as a culture at all.

Abby (12:25):

No, it's not even something that I ever knew was a thing until I was in the middle of it, I was like, wow, no one's said anything. Like nobody says anything about like, How, how, like how, You know, the anxiety, the intrusive, catastrophic thoughts, you know, that you have about like, you know, keeping this, like, you're the sole person who's now responsible for keeping this other human being alive. Like, Oh my God, that's kind of, that's a, that's a trip.

dianne (12:56):

Yeah, that's real. And then on the top of it, you have people telling you you're doing the wrong thing all the time.

Abby (13:01):

Right. Everything inside of your body is like, keep this baby close. And then everything from the culture is like, keep this baby far away. And what a confusing thing. Like I saw this meme, I can't even remember who it was by, but it was like practicing attachment parenting in a detached society is, you know, I don't know, hard or, you know, impossible or whatever, something like that. Um, but it was like, it's like, yeah, we live in this detached culture that values like this concept of independence, which is such a bullshit concept at any point in life, you know, human beings should be interdependent. You know, we are interdependent. We depend on each other like independence full on independence. That's like a trauma response. Like not needing anybody, not wanting to be around anybody, you know, not you know, that's not, that's not normal. No, that's not normal human behavior. Normal human behavior is needing each other. And then, you know, I'm really just talking about adults, but like now we're talking about like little babies that are being called clingy because they cry when you put them down. I can't even get over. That makes me nauseous. To think about like these little babies being told that being, you know, calling these little babies problematic, that, that they, you know, are fussy when they're not touching a human it's just so it's so ugly and disgusting.

dianne (14:27):

Yeah. I remember when my twins were little, they were probably only a couple of months old and my aunt was over and she was holding my daughter. My daughter was like sitting in her lap or whatever. And you know, like I said, they're probably three or four months old or something like that probably right in that phase where, you know how, like, when they're really kind of get that attachment to, you know, like where you leave the room and they're like, Oh my God, where'd my mom go. You know, like, it's, they're starting to realize that when you walk away, you're, you're gone. And I remember my aunt was like, I think she's becoming very attached to you and said success. Right. Yeah. Right. And I just like, I'll never forget that. And it was almost in a way where it was like, that's a bad thing. Like I took it, you know, like,

Abby (15:16):

Oh, that's how she meant it too. Yeah. Oh yeah. This baby is clinging all this babies, you know, the babies, having separation anxiety, The babies too attached to you, like, what the hell is happening here? This is exactly like, this is child development here. Right. Babies form attachments to their caregiver. This is how we lead to healthy attachments to other humans throughout, throughout life and not become like psycho serial killers. Right. Like, I mean, Oh my God. Oh, baby's upset that you walked away. Oh my God. Look at how you're spoiling this baby. Oh my God. I mean, it's just like, people are just like, Oh yeah, that's totally normal.

dianne (15:52):

You know, it's, this is, it is normal newborn behavior. It is normal baby behavior. It is normal for us to want to have the company of somebody else. Like, we deal with that as adults, you know, we, we don't want to be alone 24 seven, right. Like,

Abby (16:08):

Right. Well, I mean, if you're upset too, like since, when are you, like, if your partner comes to you and they're upset, you're like, Oh, go to the, go to Your room.

dianne (16:14):

Go deal with it yourself.

Abby (16:16):

Go, go Away from me. Who does that? Nobody.

dianne (16:21):

Well, my mom.

Abby (16:22):

because of probably Early attachment issues. I bet.

dianne (16:25):

Yes, exactly. Yeah.

Abby (16:27):

So should we talk more about this after a word from our sponsors?

dianne (16:30):

Yes, we should.

Abby (16:31):

And speaking of our sponsors and our transition to Parenthood, um, pay attention to this one because, uh, today's episode is brought to you by Sheila Darling Coaching. And, uh, the transition to Parenthood can be intense. Feelings of anxiety and depression are actually quite common. Your feelings should not be ignored. You deserve space where you can process this transition and all of the emotional and psychological changes that come with it. You may hear people telling you to just enjoy it, or it goes by so fast. These statements are dismissive of the changes we go through. When we have a new baby transitioning to a new family member, isn't always the peaceful journey we see on TV. Sheila Darling coaching can be that professional support person that Dianne and I are always saying, there is no shame in getting Sheila Darling is a social worker, certified hypnotherapist and a mindfulness meditation teacher. And could be your start to a more peaceful life head to Sheila darling.com to schedule your consultation today and mentioned this podcast, and you'll get 10% off of a coaching package. And today's episode is also brought to you by, uh, original sprout. Original Sprout carries safe, effective, and pediatrician, tested shampoos, conditioners, styling, and body care products produced and packed in California. USA. The leave in conditioner is light as a lightweight formula made with nourishing and emoliants and arnica for split ends, making it ideal for detangling any eliminating frizz from damaged hair. The miracle detangler is perfect to making calming hair easier for baby toddlers and children and anyone with long hair, the Rosemary can help prevent lice. All of the original sprout products are Parabon and phalate free vegan and cruelty-free their proprietary formulas contain nourishing extracts from fruit, vegetables, and flowers that the whole family can enjoy. They are not just for babies anymore. Check out the entire line@originalsprout.com and use code badass for 25% off of your purchase. And all of our sponsors and their promo codes can be found at badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com in our show notes underneath this episode. And, uh, while you're there, you can visit the other pages that include, um, all of our breastfeeding resources, our other episodes, and, um, information about scheduling your very own online consultation with Dianne. Um, and again, you can enter your email address there at the bottom and get the episode sent to your inbox.

dianne (19:04):

I love the leave-in conditioner. I'm just going to put that in there.

Abby (19:07):

Yeah. I do love the leave-in conditioner. We have the D the, the detangler too. Yeah. Oh my God Exley shaved his head now, but Oh my God. It was just like, I could not deal, but anyway. Yeah. Clingy babies, man. Clingy. I can't, I just can't even say the, the word clingy baby. Oh, it's like saying, I don't know. I should've been more prepared, prepared with a metaphor, but it's like the most disgusting two words that have ever been put together.

dianne (19:39):

A lot of it is, well, you know, we've been talking about how a lot of it is cultural, but I have definitely seen some, I've worked in some cultures where they say, well, I don't want my baby to be too attached to me. I don't want my baby to be too attached to me. Sure. It's not just our culture. No, it's not for sure. But I never know quite how to, without sounding judgey, you know, without being like, well, what do you, what are you having a baby for? Then if they're, you know, you don't want them attached to you. Like, it seems like one just goes with the other, like, you have a baby, they're going to be with you forever. Like, this is your, this is your child. You know, like this is your child. They stay attached to you and you can try to push them away as much as you want to, but they're coming back. Like they need you

Abby (20:23):

Actually. You hope they're coming back. Yeah. Because if you're not, you know, if you're not going to be like a, you know, a nurturing parent, then like some kids won't, they'll be like, thank God I'm outta here. And I, you know, honestly, I don't think that applies to anybody. Who's listening to this podcast because you wouldn't be listening to this podcast if you were just like checked out. But like, you know, it does happen just to like validate everybody here. Like it, you know, everything that you're doing, all of the things that you're doing for your baby, picking them up when they cry and keeping them close. And like, it doesn't matter what anybody is telling you, telling around you, like you're doing what is absolutely normal for caring for a baby. This is like biologically expected. It's normal. It is, you know, something that's setting, setting them up for an entire life of like healthy relationships with other people and with you, which you want, you want them to come home for Christmas, right? I mean, this is whatever you celebrate. You know,

dianne (21:26):

Babies are so primal, you know, they are so primal. And our response to them is primal. So when people are saying to you, Oh, you shouldn't be, you shouldn't be picking your, you shouldn't be holding your baby all the time. You shouldn't be, you know, I remember somebody had said to me, once they were talking about their, this is like before I even had kids, I think they were talking about their brother and their child, their brother's child. And they're like that kids feet didn't touch the floor for the first two years of their life. And it was like, and it was a very judgy statement. And it's like, you know what? There are some cultures where they baby seriously do not touch the floor because they are held all the time. There's nothing wrong with that. That is forming a solid attachment, healthy, healthy attachment to your caregivers. There is nothing wrong with that.

Abby (22:17):

Right. That's what you want.

dianne (22:19):

That is absolutely what you want. But if you are feeling like, you know, you're kind of in that newborn stage and you're feeling like, Oh my gosh, I'm just exhausted. I need to get some sleep. What do I do? I mean, there's, there's things that you can do to kind of help you through that process. But I think part of it is knowing that this is what your baby needs and wants.

Abby (22:44):

Right? It's it's normal, those early days are, are I think the other thing that comes with so much frustration with losing sleep is that we are told that it's not normal. So we're told that it's not normal. And then so people are like, Oh my God, what's happening here is not normal. And I need to get more sleep and everyone else is getting sleep because they're figuring it out. And I'm not figuring it out because something's wrong with me or my baby. And then there becomes the, you know, frustration. It's like I had a friend, I have a friend who had a baby. Um, I don't know, this has been a few years now, but, um, it was like, you know, the baby is like a year. And I was like, so how, you know, how how's it going? And he goes, he goes, you know, as soon as you just give up on trying to get any sleep, you just give up on the idea that you're going to like, get some like long stretches of sleep. It's a lot easier, you know, when you just, when you just learn that, like, you're, you know, this is what is to be expected. This is normal. It's you, you're still tired. Of course, you're still all of these things, but like, you can drop this whole, like, something's wrong. All this will go on forever. Like this, it passes, you know, it's a short period of time. Um, and they do eventually sleep longer. Um, and everything that's going on right now, they're not clingy. They're normal. It's a very normal thing

dianne (24:11):

That, um, the messaging that I was doing with that person on Instagram, I had helped her with her first baby. And I said to her, at one point, I said, your daughter did this too. You just don't remember it. She was like, really? Because I thought she slept longer stretches, like this is a newborn thing. This is a baby thing. And you can think that you stepped out of the hospital into a life with a baby where your kid was sleeping for several hours at a time, but that did not happen

Abby (24:45):

If it's, you know, we can talk because people that have multiple babies, sometimes they are like, babies have temperaments. You know, some babies do end up sleeping a little bit longer if, you know, sooner than other babies. And some babies are more wakeful and more fussy. They just have different temperaments. Jack was very different from Exley. And then, you know, but there was nothing wrong with Jack.

dianne (25:08):

And it's not a feeding issue. No, that's what I, it always comes back to that. You know, it always come back, comes back to, well, maybe they're, maybe they're hungry. Your infant with a tiny, small stomach is not starving 24 hours a day, but they do want to be held 24 hours a day. So, I mean, that's just the way it is.

Abby (25:29):

And that's normal.

dianne (25:30):

break out your carrier, strap them to you. I mean, it's just, it's just the way, just the way it is. And it is hard when you have other children and you're trying to balance spending time with other kids with, you know, the newborn and that's, that's very hard, but that's also something we need to prepare for. And like you said, our culture is not very good at support.

Abby (25:56):

No. And I remember I was in the shower one time and I put Jack in the, um, like a little bassinet thing next to the shower. And I, like, I had gone...I was just like, so freaked out. Every time he fussed, I was like, Oh my God, something is terribly wrong. You know, every time I put him down, he fusses and I didn't understand what was happening. Um, and I just decided one day, like, I'm just going to take a shower. And I put him in the bassinet and he fussed the whole time. And I finally like after months or whatever, I just had this moment. Um, I was like, okay, he's fussing right now. It's okay. Like, I'm going to finish taking a shower. And like, I'm not, he's not, I'm not crying it out with him. There's nothing wrong. He's just there. And I'm there and he's fussy. I don't have to freak out and like, stop my shower. And like, you know what I mean? Like, you know, if your, of course your, your baby's fussy, it doesn't mean that your baby's fussing because you're not holding them or whatever, but it's also okay for, for them to fuss a little bit. Like they're going to be okay. Yeah. You know, you just do what you need to do. Cause I feel like we feel like we can't, you know, we, we, we can't, we can't let them fuss at all. Or, you know, we are doing cry it out or we're bad, or we're not picking them up. You know, we're not answering their, you know, their needs or whatever. And that's not true. You can take a shower and like, it's really hard to listen to a fussy baby while you're in the shower. But like really.

dianne (27:25):

just talk to them, you know?

Abby (27:28):

Yeah. they can hear you, and like, finish your shower, finish eating finish you know, doing these things and you know, them fussing for little while that's okay. They're fine.

dianne (27:41):

Yeah. As long as you know, your baby's safe.

Abby (27:44):

Yeah. The right there. Don't leave them fussing in the lawn and go inside.

dianne (27:51):

No it's. And you know, when it comes down to is the more and this is what I try to tell parents. The more you respond to your baby in those early days, the more independent they become later on

Abby (28:05):

Eventually later on.

dianne (28:06):

Yeah. Not tomorrow, not next week.

Abby (28:09):

Yeah. Cause I think we think that too, like, well, what am I going to start being independent when they're like four? And it's like, no, no, no. We're talking like, long-term life things here. We're talking about, like in the, you know, and also again, the, I hate the word independent. I can't stand it. It's also a, it's also a bullshit concept, but no, they're not going to be crying for you when they're 16,

dianne (28:32):

Then you know what, how many times do you see that on social media where somebody has a child, you know, going off to college or they're, you know, they are more independent. And you know, now you've got like parents Who are, you know, with Older children. And they're like, Oh my gosh, my kid doesn't need me anymore. Oh no. You know, like, it's like, how do we go from, Oh my God, this baby is making me crazy. Cause he just wants to be held all the time. And then 16 years later we're like, Oh no looking at colleges. Yeah, no I do. I mean you can't. I mean...what do we, What are we doing here? That's such a mixed message.

Abby (29:13):

It is. Yeah, it is. Yeah. I don't. Yeah, it will. You'll eventually it'll all come back to bite you in the ass no matter what.

dianne (29:24):

Um, but they're not. Yeah. So your, your baby that is wanting to be with you all the time is normal. That is a normal thing.

Abby (29:33):

Yeah. Like waking up, like not sleeping a lot, waking up at night, feeding a lot, you know,

dianne (29:41):

this falling Asleep at the breasts, listen to our breastsleeping episode. That's a thing.

Abby (29:45):

Right. That's, that's all very normal. It doesn't mean that they're clingy and crying when you like put them down when I'm down. Yeah. For the longest time I thought something was wrong with Jack. And every time I was just like, every time I put him down, he cries. Every time I put him down, he, you know, he doesn't stay asleep, but I'll get him to sleep at the breast. And then I try to lay him down and he wakes up, like, I thought something was wrong and no, it's just, my body is the only environment that he is acclimated to. And when he was away from that environment, it was uncomfortable for him. And that's normal.

dianne (30:22):

And for some babies, they don't even want to be held by anybody other than their birth parent. Right. And they know. And I don't know if you experienced that with Josh. I don't remember having that experience, but I have a lot of families That'll be like, what do I do? I can't even leave the baby with, you know, with my partner because the baby doesn't want to be with anybody else.

Abby (30:49):

Yeah. No, that's totally normal. Yeah.

dianne (30:50):

That's totally normal. Like, it's totally, totally normal. And it is overwhelming to be the only one. But this is where,

Abby (31:00):

And then a lot of times you have, sometimes you have partners that are kind of resentful about that.

dianne (31:04):

Absolutely.

Abby (31:05):

What are you doing? You know, this baby only wants you, you should stop breastfeeding them so that I can have, you know, time with them too. Or they're becoming too attached to you or they're coming too clingy to you. And that's, you know, I know, no, no, no, no, no. This is all very normal stuff. The baby is going to become attached first to the breast/ chest, feeding parent birth birthing parent. That's just how it is.

dianne (31:28):

They were in their body. Literally. We Cannot forget

Abby (31:32):

This is a new Human being. This is just how it is. And you can be mad about it, but that doesn't change anything. I would always say to my kids, I'm like, you can be mad about it, But it's just how it is.

dianne (31:41):

Right? Like, you can hate it, which is normal feeling too. You can be like, I it's a lot. It feels overwhelming to be the only one that can take care of this infant or that this infant wants. Yes, absolutely. But that is when you grab those people around you and have them doing everything else because you shouldn't be responsible for the life and the feeding and all of that with the newborn and also be responsible for all the laundry, all the cooking, the other children, the average, like you, you need to have help. You need to have that support. You just can't do it by yourself. I don't care who you are. It's not healthy.

Abby (32:24):

No. And there's a lot of people who are doing it by themselves.

dianne (32:26):

Oh my gosh. Way too many. Yeah. way too many way too many, because we're also like, Oh, you should be able to do this by yourself. Yeah.

Abby (32:35):

Well, we say it to ourselves too. Like, I should be able to do this by myself because this is you. This is my, this is my job right now. So I need to do it all. No, don't you don't absolutely. Don't. I mean, if you, yeah, if you can accept, help. Cause that's the other thing, people don't accept help. And then, but, um, yeah. Yeah. Jack was very clingy and actually Exley is going to turn seven next month and he will not, if he falls down and hurts himself or he's crying or whatever, if Josh gets anywhere near him, it is like, he's mad. Like I'm the only one who can comfort him when he falls. And Josh gets really mad about it. And I'm just like, you know what? I don't know. He's seven. He's just in this phase right now. He doesn't want, I remember my sister was like, I think she was like four or five or whatever. And the only person who could put her to bed was my dad. She was just like get out. You know, she didn't want to have anything to do with my mom at bedtime. And my dad was the only one who could put her in bed and she was mad about it and mad, mad about it. If my mom got near her and it's just normal, it's just totally normal developmental stuff. They go back and forth, you know, from there building that attachment to the other parent. And it's all normal stuff. Your, if your child's doing stuff, you know, stuff like that, there's never anything like dysfunctional about that. That is just stages and ages and things that they're, you know, developing through. And the best thing you can do is just kind of support them through it from day one.

Speaker 1 (34:07):

Absolutely. And that's it. Good luck. Thanks for listening. Thank you. Bye. Bye [inaudible].