Badass Breastfeeding Podcast

Toddler Nursing

February 15, 2021 Dianne Cassidy & Abby Theuring Season 1 Episode 181
Badass Breastfeeding Podcast
Toddler Nursing
Show Notes Transcript

Are you breastfeeding a toddler?

Are you breastfeeding a newborn wondering how you possibly breastfeed a toddler?

Has someone told you to “stop breastfeeding when they can ask for it”

Breastfeeding a toddler is very different from breastfeeding a newborn.  Listen up for more info on this.  And spoiler alert – babies ask to breastfeed the minute they come out of the womb so that’s not a valid argument.

 If you are a new listener, we would love to hear from you.  Please consider leaving us a review on itunes or sending us an email with your suggestions and comments to badassbreastfeedingpodcast@gmail.com

WE HAVE TRANSCRIPTS!!  You can also add your email to our list and have episodes sent right to your inbox!


Things we talked about:

A toddler breastfeeding freaks people out [5:02]

How old is too old? [11:41]

You cannot force a baby or toddler to nurse [12:57]

WHO and AAP recommendations [14:38]

Positioning when breastfeeding a toddler [21:11]

Nursing and solids [22:50]

Newborn vs toddler nursing [25:14]

No more pumping! [27:15]

Milk changes [32:42]

Latching and biting [34:41]

 

Today’s Shout Out is to Birth Nerds

@birthnerds

https://laurenjturnerfineart.com


*This Episode is sponsored by Original Sprout and Sheila Darling Coaching

 

Links to information we discussed or episodes you should check out!

https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com/episode/129-balancing-solids-with-breastfeeding/

https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com/episode/124-breastfeeding-boundaries/

https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com/episode/092-when-people-tell-you-how-to-breastfeed/

 

Set up your consultation with Dianne

https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com/consultations/     

 

Check out Dianne’s blog here~

https://diannecassidyconsulting.com/milklytheblog/

 

Follow our Podcast~


Here is how you can connect with Dianne and Abby~

 

Music we use~

Music: "Levels of Greatness" from "We Used to Paint Stars in the Sky (2012)" courtesy of Scott Holmes at freemusicarchive.org/music/Scott Holmes

Dianne (00:00):

Welcome to the Badass Breastfeeding Podcast. This is Dianne, your lactation consultant,

Abby (00:28):

and I'm Abby, the badass breastfeeder and today's episode is brought to you by Original Sprout. Original Sprout carries, safe, effective, and pediatrician, tested shampoos, conditioners, and styling body care products produced and packaged in California USA. And today's episode is also brought to you by Sheila Darling. Sheila Darling is a social worker, certified hypnotherapist and mindfulness meditation teacher, and could be your start to a more peaceful life. And we'll hear more from our sponsors later. Um, Oh, but before we go on, um, head to badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com and check out our sponsor page of all of our sponsors that make this podcast possible and check there. If there's, if you think that you need anything, check there first, because, um, you can give our sponsors some business and while you're there, scroll down and enter your email address and have the episodes sent right to your inbox every Monday. And now Dianne has our review of the week.

Dianne (01:28):

Yes, I have our review of the week and it comes from 1995 S V, which sounds very mysterious, but that's what the logo is and says so thankful for you Ladies. I had my son two years ago and was so unprepared for breastfeeding and was told so much incorrect information from doctors and nurses. And I was living far away from my breastfeeding friends. So our breastfeeding journey ended within two months. I'm now pregnant with my second boy. And I promised myself that before I give birth, I will educate myself as much as possible to ensure breastfeeding is successful. This time, this podcast has educated me so much, given me confidence. I love you guys. Yay. Congratulations. And you know, I cannot tell you how many times I hear that, that people tell me they get such bad information and it's really unfortunate, but what are you going to do? I mean, that's why we have it. That's why we do it. The like the bad information is all over the place.

Abby (02:32):

And can you hear me? Can you hear me? Yeah. Dianne, you're breaking up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So are you, Oh, that's weird. Yeah. Um, okay. Well we'll just go on and see, uh, what happens.

Dianne (02:49):

when, so you guys should know like Abby's out of town. So we are like winging it from a whole new set up.

Abby (02:58):

well, I have my setup right here.

Dianne (03:02):

You do have a setup. Yes. It's just not your original setup.

Abby (03:05):

Everything right here. Yeah. I'm not usually where I am, but nobody can see me. So it's the same.

Dianne (03:10):

Yeah. But different internet. So that can throw things

Abby (03:13):

Same Exley screaming in the background. So it should be all just normal.

Dianne (03:19):

It would not be The same without Exley, or one of my dogs whining in the background. Like, it just wouldn't be the same.

Abby (03:27):

Okay.

Dianne (03:29):

So, um, with that, I just want to remind you guys send us reviews. I love, you know, I love to read them. I love to get them, and I love that we've been helpful to you. So, you know, good for you, Ms. 1995, that we are arming you with some information to go with your new, with your next baby and good luck. What are we talking about today?

Abby (03:55):

We're talking about, um, how to nurse a toddler. Oh dear. I know. And it sounds like, um, like what do you mean how to nurse a toddler and doesn't everybody just know how to nurse a toddler? How do you deal with that toddler? I know. Well, yeah. And a nursing, a toddler is so very different from nursing, a newborn, which you would know if you were nursing a toddler and then got pregnant again and then had a baby and you were breastfeeding again. And you were like, what? I don't remember any of this, I remember holding Exley. And I was like, what is this? This is so different. This is so completely different from what I'm doing with Jack. And I have nursed two toddlers and I've nursed them at the same time. Um, for many years, actually, as you guys probably know Jack nursed until he was six and a half and Exley was pushing five. Um, so he was, both of them were toddlers, small child kind of age, tandem nursing for a few years there. And it's different. And it's um, but there is like, we were talking about misinformation, the misinformation surrounding breastfeeding toddlers and small children is just as horrible.

Dianne (05:01):

It's worse.

Abby (05:02):

It's worse. That's the true cause then it starts to get, so everyone starts to get so freaked out about it. It's like you, you sort of expect to see a baby breastfeeding except in our society. You don't accept, expect to see your breast at all. Unless it's like being advertised to sell coffee or something unrelated to breasts. Exactly. I swear. You see the most breasts when it's like something that's not a bra or something, right? Yeah. So bizarre. Um, yeah. And then, so you don't, you don't really, breastfeeding's already weird, but then to see a toddler breastfeeding, just freaks people out. And I remember like before I had kids, if somebody had said to me that I would be breastfeeding a toddler, I would have been like, Ew, that's gross. I would have said the exact same thing that everyone else in society says, cause I'd never seen it. Never heard of it, thought it was weird. And like, these are boobs, toddlers, shouldn't be sucking on them. Um, but, and then, so what happens, and this is why I think misinformation and confusion and loneliness starts with toddler breastfeeding is because people who do continue to breastfeed into toddlerhood start to hide it. Yes. They're not posting the pictures on, on the internet anymore. They're not really talking about it with their family. They're maybe just doing it at home, but not out in public.

Dianne (06:20):

They're like closet breastfeeders.

Abby (06:21):

yes. There's so many closet breastfeeders out there that are breastfeeding toddlers because they just are afraid of being criticized, which may or may have been criticized a whole entire time. And now, um, breastfeeding a toddler is or breastfeeding a six-year-old. I mean, with Jack, I remember when Jack started to be like five or so there was, there was this media like news, media outlet. I don't remember what it was. It was, I don't know. It was like one of those internet ones, you know, just this people who did stories about people and they contacted me and they were like, so can we like come and do a story about you breastfeeding your son? And I was like, okay, like, um, okay, what do you want to come over? And like, interview me. Okay, cool. They're like, well, we'd love to video you nursing him. And I was like, well, I mean, he's like really only nurses to sleep at night. Um, so he doesn't like nurse a lot during the day, you know, he was like five. So, you know, it just became kind of like a going to sleep thing. And they're like, Oh, well we could have, like, we could send somebody out, um, to you. And they could just like hide in the corner while you're putting him to sleep. And we'll be really quiet. I was like, what? And I was like, no, that's not happening. And I'm the badass breastfeeder. And I got to the point where he was like After that I stopped posting pictures of it on the internet. And I became almost a closet. I mean, I think people knew that he was nursing. Cause it would, you know, I didn't, I talked about it, but I didn't post the pictures anymore. Right. Because people were, are so weird about it. People, I felt like I needed to like protect my family on some level.

Dianne (08:22):

People are really weird about it. Yeah. It's first of all, my thing about it, it's like it's nobody's business, you know, like it's nobody's business. What at all. So people should not be saying anything about it, but I feel like once they turn about God, 15, 16 months, 17 months, people are like, Oh, that's still going on. Like I think people just assume that once your baby is eating solid foods, that there's no reason for them to be breastfeeding anymore, which is untrue.

Abby (08:58):

Right. And there's all those things like, well, if they're old enough to ask for it, then they're too old to do it, which is hilarious because they ask for it like the moment that they're born, right? Like it's not always like words that are communication from a baby or a child that they want to nurse.

Dianne (09:16):

But it's, it's a huge, huge, what's the word I'm looking for here. Like indication of how ignorant our society is about why babies breastfeed to begin with. Right. It is not about the food. And we said that like every single podcast for the last, like 200 episodes or something, it's not about the food all the time. And when you have a toddler, it is just, it's not about that. And then you want to think about too. What about that? What about that mother? Or that, you know, the parents, this is a decision that they are making for their family. It is not up to society to say, Oh yeah, you should not be breastfeeding. Your, your toddler. You should not be breastfeeding. This is all that this parent has done for their child. Maybe they don't want to give that up yet. Maybe they're not ready. How about that?

Abby (10:08):

Right. I mean, this is for me, I worked so hard with Jack. It Wasn't going really well. It was just how all of this blog stuff started for me. It was horrible. It was awful. And once it started to get going, it was awesome. And it was great. And by like three months it was working really well. And by the time we got to a year, I was like, why in the world would I start to ween him? And like, like start to push. Why would I push this agenda of, okay, I'm not saying it right. I wasn't ready. He wasn't ready. And I was like, I worked so hard to get here. Why would I stop when there's people that want to stop? And that's fine, you, you stop then. But if you feel like it's too soon, if you feel like you're not ready, you're not being selfish. You're not, there's all these people to, Oh, well, you're just doing it for yourself at this point. There's no, there's no benefits to the child at this point. I mean, that's ridiculous. And that reminds me of this quote that I saw on one of my Facebook posts the other day, it was really awesome. And I'm going to pull it up on my phone cause I took a screenshot of it. Um, but like, if you, first of all, you're a parent and you have very valid, you know, your needs and your wants are valid. And they're just as important as your child's like, you're a part of this relationship too. If you're enjoying breastfeeding, that doesn't make you selfish.

Dianne (11:29):

You know who's not part of the relationship? The person commenting, screw you, Nothing to do with you,

Abby (11:35):

right. Oh, here is it. Here? It is. So somebody said like how old, um, how old is too old? And this person said if a child was too old to be breastfeeding, they would literally not be breastfeeding. I mean, for anyone wondering how old is too old, currently breastfeeding at any interval equals not too old. Like it's so true. Like you can't make your time. This is for me. So I'm going to make you breastfeed. I'm going to shove your face here and I'm going to make you suckle. Okay. It's physically impossible. If a child is nursing, they're doing it out of their own free will and desire and needs. Like you don't, you can't force them to do it. And if you're okay with it, then it's normal and natural to be doing it. It's not like it wouldn't be normal to shove their face. That would be weird. Which my friend did. One time we went, um, we went to Washington DC and I wanted to get a picture of her breastfeeding in front of the white house. Um, but he was like, he was a toddler older, you know, whatever. And he would nurse sometimes, but not all the time. So I was like see if he'll nurse right now. And so she was kind of like, there was actually a picture of her hand over his head, try to like push him to the boob. I was like, all right, I forget it.

Dianne (12:53):

but it's not like you were forcing Jack to nurse before bed

Abby (12:57):

No, I can't. Yeah. I, I can't, you can literally cannot force them to be nursing if they're nursing it's happening because it's like a natural response that they haven't stopped doing yet. Right. So if you are feeling like, you know, if you're a lot of people are feeling they're getting to the point with, should I wean? Should I, you know, how old, how old is too old? When should I, when you know, you don't have to worry about that. If you feel like it's too soon and it's still working for you and you're still benefiting from it and you're still enjoying it, my God, you're allowed to enjoy it. Why are we not allowed to enjoy anything? It's like, if we enjoy it, then we're forcing everybody into our party and you know, making them miserable and doing something against their own will like, what the hell?

Dianne (13:40):

I know.

Abby (13:41):

why can't something just be happening. And we enjoy it too. Oh my God. And you also don't have to enjoy it all the time. Cause it's not great. Anybody who says that's another, another response, kind of a toddler, breastfeeding responses. Anybody who thinks I'm doing this for my own needs has never breastfed a toddler. Right? Because it is not like all fun and games. I was talking, I interviewed who, so next week we're going to have Tracy Cassels on the, on the, on the show. And I interviewed her yesterday. We got the interview and.

Dianne (14:10):

God, I can't wait.

Abby (14:11):

Oh my God. It was so good. She was talking about how maybe I shouldn't say it. Maybe I should make everybody waiting for this really funny part. But we were talking about bed sharing and you know, the safety and she was like, you know, sleeping with a toddler, you have more of a chance of being injured by the sleeping toddler

Abby (14:30):

That's true. Yeah. Then it's true for breastfeeding too, because they're like beating you up all the time too. But, but the thing is, is like the world health organization, the world health organization recommends exclusive breastfeeding for six months and then breastfeeding with supplemented with solids for up to two years or beyond until it's not working out for you anymore. Right? Like we don't even get, why are we even discussing, you know, this like, it's, these are major world health organizations that are saying like, this is healthy. This is the best start for your child. And like, we're here, whatever, as soon as it goes to everything, it's, you know, we're always criticizing things that are being talked about as being the healthiest thing.

Dianne (15:15):

The American Academy of pediatrics says two years as well. They say, you know, a year for sure. And then, you know, uh, going as long as mom and baby are fine with it. And then, you know, up to two years, whatever, however it's worded, you will be hard pressed to find a pediatrician that encourages you to breastfeed to 2

Abby (15:31):

Right? And it's their own governing body that says that this should be happening.

Dianne (15:36):

But when I have a family that comes to me and says, Oh, well my, you know, the baby just turned a year. My pediatrician said that I should be starting on whole milk or that I should wean. I'm like really? Because their governing body says 2, so what do they, what are they doing? Why are they telling you that they're not even following their own, their own unit that certifies them? Like, I don't understand. Did they look, did they, were they sick that day? Did they miss that? Like what happened there? I don't understand.

Abby (16:06):

I know it doesn't make any sense. They're not paying attention. They don't care. They just going to go off by their own opinion. It's all opinion based on science. And it's like, that's a, you're a doctor. You should be working off of science. But they're not a lot of times when it comes to lactation because they don't have that. That's crazy. So there's a lot of things that go into toddler breastfeeding. And I feel like it's already time for us to have an ad break, which is insane because I haven't even started.

Dianne (16:33):

Gosh. All right. So we'll, we'll do our ad break and then you can do your list

Abby (16:37):

Come right back. Cause we have new sponsors and you're going to want to hear about them. We have a, an older sponsor that's back. Cause you guys are so awesome. Yeah. And then a new one, which you're going to want to hear about and we'll be right back. Today's episode is brought to you by Sheila Darling coaching. A new baby can add intense amounts of anxiety and depression, no sleep, feeling overwhelmed, looking at your sweet baby and wondering how this tiny human can cause so much chaos. The transition to Parenthood is an entire identity shift. You weren't prepared for. If one more person tells you that this time goes by so quickly, you might just punch them in the face. Transitioning to a new family member takes patience self-compassion and support. Sheila Darling Coaching can be that professional support that Dianne and I are always saying, there is no shame in getting Sheila Darling is a social worker, a certified hypnotherapist and a mindfulness meditation teacher. And could be your start to a more peaceful life head to Sheiladarling.com to schedule your consultation today and mention the badass breastfeeding podcast when scheduling your consultation and you'll receive 10% off of a coaching package. And today's episode is also brought to you by Original Sprout. Original sprout carries safe, effective, and pediatrician, tested shampoos, conditioners, styling products, styling, and body care products produce in package in California, USA. Their hair and body baby wash is made with gentle moisturizing ingredients, such as organic calendula and refreshing Rosemary extract. Rosemary helps stimulate scalp circulation and calm cradle cap and eczema. This hair and body baby wash is ideal for babies, children and adults alike. All of original sprouts products are parabens and phalates free vegan, and cruelty-free. Their proprietary formulas contain nourishing extracts from fruits, vegetables, and flowers that the whole family can enjoy. They are not just for babies anymore. Check out the entire line@originalsprout.com and use code badass for 25% off of your order. Originalsprout.com code badass 25% off. Um, and these sponsors and their promo codes can be found in our show notes. Under this episode at badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com, our show notes will also include further information about things we talked about in this episode and at badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com. You'll also find our breastfeeding resources, all of our other episodes and information about scheduling your very own one-on-one online lactation consultation with Dianne And Our shout out of the week goes to birth nerds. Um, they're nerdy and they like birth, and you can find them at birth nerds on Instagram. Um, together we will normalize birth and lactation birth nerds, unite, reproductive justice, black birth. You can find, um, they sell a lot of products, uh, by, with art by, um, let me click this here. Uh, Lauren J. Turner fine art. So that's the other page where you can find, um, all of her arts, uh, Lauren J. Turner, fine arts on Instagram. Oh my God. I'm hitting my microphone with all of my movement. Find this cool. This is a cool newsfeed, um, with amazing art, lots of, uh, reproductive justice, um, posts and information and, at birthnerds.com. You can find all their products, they have t-shirts and stickers and like, um, a lot of, um, just, um, reproductive justice products. So head there. birth nerds and Lauren J. Turner fine art and back to toddler breastfeeding,

Dianne (20:43):

bring it.

Abby (20:44):

Okay. So, um, there's things like that. You're going to notice a differ. So this is like people start, people have actually like, been like, how so, what am I supposed to do when I'm breastfeeding a toddler? Like you have all these new questions you got going with nursing, a baby, and you know, things were going and now you're breastfeeding your toddler. And you're just like, okay, well, is it different now? What do I do? Um, so positioning is, you know, you decide the positioning sometimes it's, you know, a lot of people find nursing a toddler a lot easier because you're just doing less. You're not having to find like, you know, a good position. You know, your, your toddler is just very more independent. Now they can sit up, they can latch on by themselves. They can do all these things. A lot of times, toddlers are really antsy and they want to be, I mean, this starts in babyhood too, with them trying to stand up and do flips and all the gymnastics that you hear about and see. Um, so one of the things that's really great with toddlers is boundaries. And you can start with the boundaries around this as well. Like, okay, we're having nursing time. So we're going to have you, you're going to sit on my lap. And if you do not like all of the spinning and the jumping and the slapping and the kicking, then we're not going to be nursing unless you can sit down and it's okay to say that. Um, because now they're getting a little older, too. They can understand more. You can talk to them. And this is a great time to be like, this is my, I still have to do this with my kids. This is my body that hurts me when you do that, stop doing that. So that is a great time and a great way to start with boundaries and a way to model, like, you know, this is my body, you know, Oh, to model that kind of assertiveness and boundaries around your own self. Um, so a lot of people also get concerned about, um, feeding. Like how do I balance the, um, nursing with the solid food?

Dianne (22:51):

And we actually get that question all the time.

Abby (22:54):

and we have a whole episode on that, like balancing solids with nursing. It's kind of like more, I think, geared towards like, around that age where you're starting solids, like around six months. Um, so, but once you get into toddlerhood, this is something too where you don't have to worry so much anymore. I mean, you never have to worry. Hopefully that's what all of our podcasts are saying. Stop worrying about all the, all the, you know, the misinformation that is being told to you. But the bottom line is you cannot over nurse, a toddler or a small child. You can't breastfeed them too much. Breastfeeding is never going to interfere with them trying new foods or them eating enough. Just recently. Somebody said this to me, that their doctor said that they should cut down on breastfeeding so that the child eat more solid foods. It doesn't work like that. It just doesn't, your toddler is not nursing because they don't want to eat the banana they're nursing because that's the thing they've always done. It's familiar to them. They're not going to eat the banana either way. If they're not ready to eat the banana, you just give them the food. You let them work it out and you can breast feed on demand. If you want, again, you don't have to, you can work in some boundaries and may have a whole episode on breastfeeding boundaries and how to create those for yourself. Um, but you don't have to, uh, cut back so that they'll eat more solid foods. You don't have to stop giving breast milk and switch it for cows milk. Um, because you know, your doctor says there's not enough fat or none of whatever in your breast milk. You know, let's think of this logically, you know, your body, your human body did not make human milk the wrong way. And therefore you need a cows breast milk. That's not how it works.

Dianne (24:42):

no. Just let that go.

Abby (24:46):

Yeah. You limit, Limit breastfeeding or toddler for your own sanity. If that's what you need to do, you don't ever need to limit it for their health or anything like that. Breastfeeding is healthy at any age. It is wonderful and so much more than food.

Dianne (25:03):

You, one of the hardest things for me when I was, you know, when I was breastfeeding and that I definitely wanted to make sure that I portray this message along. If you are listening right now, and you have a newborn that is nursing 15 times a day, every two hours for, you know, 20 minutes or something like that, to even conceptualize going and doing that for a year and a half is mind boggling. So, one thing I want everybody to remember is that when you, as your baby gets older, this gets way easier. You know, like Abby said that it's, it's easier when they're toddlers, they're nursing for two minutes, they're, you know, they're on, they're off on their own. Um, you're kind of just following their lead. It's only maybe a couple of times a day. Like it becomes very more controlled. I should say.

Abby (26:01):

You have so much more control of it. You are not in that newborn fog anymore. You just, as a person are not, you know, dealing with a new Parenthood anymore. And if you, if you have a new baby right now, and you're thinking that this doesn't apply to you, let me tell you in Three, two, One, you'll be breastfeeding a toddler. So pay attention this, you know, I know it feels like you're in it going to be in it for a really long time, but you're going to be breastfeeding a newborn for a few more minutes, and then you're going to have a toddler in your hands. It's crazy. And it's okay. You know, so do you know, you think about it and if it makes, if it makes you excited, I mean, it made me excited to like, think about my baby growing and us having this relationship. And I know there's a lot of problems, you know, that everyone has. Um, but hopefully we're helping you work those out and we can help you work those out so that you can have this great breastfeeding relationship that will last for however long you want it to, however, however long you want it to. Um, so the other great thing is these are all things to look forward to. It gets so much easier. You don't have to think about all of the things all of the time. It gets so much easier. The other thing that you can start doing when they're, if you're working and you're pumping all the time and you have a toddler, you can stop pumping,

Dianne (27:18):

get rid of it, put it away, put your pump away.

Abby (27:21):

I love saying that because I know it makes people so happy. I know you can stop. You can, they can have, you know, they can have water. They can have whatever you drink in your house during the day. They can have, if you want to drink cow's milk or some other kind of nut milk or whatever, just have that, you know, have whatever you, whatever they normally have, they can have that while you're gone. Um, and then you can nurse when you're with them. And yes, your milk supply will last and your milk supply will adjust.

Dianne (27:50):

That's always the biggest question too. Can I stop pumping? Is that going to impact, what if I still want to nurse at night? What if I still want to nurse in the morning or before naps, like absolutely. Your body's going to do what you tell it to do. And at this point it's been doing it for a year, so it's not going to just like dry up and blow away, like a dandelion, like it's just fine. You know,

Abby (28:11):

Supply is very, you know, it's very strong and very, very, um, resilient,

Dianne (28:16):

very established at this point.

Abby (28:19):

Um, and so let's address for one moment. All of these things that people say about breastfeeding, a toddler that will cause longterm psychological damage sissies it'll make them gay. It will make them, um, too dependent. You're causing sexual trauma. Yes, yes. It's sexual at this point and then you're traumatizing them. You know, none of these things are true. Um, quite the contrary, first of all, you're going to be gay, whether you're gay or whether you you're just going to, if you're gay, you're gay. I hope we understand that people are who they are. Gender is a social construct. Like let's get it all together people. Breastfeeding is its own thing. Um, you have a breastfeeding relationship with your child and you know, this, the closeness, the bonding and the attachment that breastfeeding provides the consequences of that go for the rest of their lives. You know, they're going to be strong and healthy and emotionally secure and, and you know, attached to human beings. That's just going to play out in their adult relationships too, which is the greatest thing that you can, you know, do for your child.

Dianne (29:39):

So it really is just the opposite of what the naysayers are telling you, people say, Oh my gosh, you're going to make him a wimp and da da, they're too attached to you. Yeah, they're too dependent, too dependent and attached.

Abby (29:52):

I hear the sissy a lot. I don't know what that's a terrible word. It's somewhat ridiculous. Um, but if you're hearing information from whoever it is, your doctor or your family, whoever that are saying that there are concerns around toddler breastfeeding, any concern that they list health, emotional, psychological, whatever, it's all wrong. It's wrong. You can say like, Oh, that's, I'm hearing something negative about it. That that means it's wrong. You can make that, that conclusion because there is nothing wrong or negative about breastfeeding toddler. No. Um, nursing aversion, sucks, nursing aversion does happen for some, for some people. This is a time where people might be getting pregnant again. Um, breastfeeding is not a birth control, especially toddler. You can totally get pregnant. Um, being pregnant and hormonal changes that happen with breastfeeding and all of this, even if you're not pregnant, um, can bring on nursing aversion. Um, we have episodes on that too, that go into detail of that. If you're struggling with that. Um, a lot of times people will say too, like if you know, your toddler is not sleeping through the night, it's because they're still nursing all night. Your toddlers not sleeping through the night because they're not developmentally ready to sleep through the night. That's why, and if you stop nursing or you can, but it's not like they're just gonna like suddenly be like, okay, well I'm going to sleep through the night now. Right? You'll still be dealing with a waking toddler. They really don't sleep through the night. For many years, several years, Exley is going to be seven. I mean, obviously every kid is different, but Exley is going to be seven this year. And I guess he sleeps through the night. I mean, he doesn't nurse anymore, but no, he's up. He gets up usually, usually once he usually once around midnight or so he gets up and checks for me. So, you know, have fun with that.

Dianne (31:53):

I mean, my babies would sleep. And then once they became toddlers would get up again.

Abby (31:57):

Yeah. I mean, and it also changes too, right? It's like, whatever they're developed, whatever they're going through developmentally, they might've been sleeping fine. And now they're not, it's just, it does all get it all does get easier as they get older. I mean, there are obviously new challenges, but those kinds of challenges get you do start to get more sleep. You do. If you're wondering if you're ever going to sleep again, you will. I promise you, um, a couple more things. Um, so you also, also with this breastfeeding, a toddler thing like, Oh, well, there's no more nutritional value in your milk. That is a bunch of bullshit. Your breast milk always has wonderful nutrients in it changes.

Dianne (32:42):

It changes to adapt to what your toddler needs. So, I mean, how can you go wrong.

Abby (32:48):

We're going to do an episode on that too uh, somewhere down the line. It's on the schedule.

Dianne (32:52):

Yeah. I got some good info on that.

Abby (32:54):

Oh yeah. Of how milk changes with your milk changes with your child,

Dianne (33:00):

So that's all a bunch of bullshit when people tell you, Oh, it's not, there's nothing to it anymore. It's just water. It's not, they're not getting any nutrients nutritional value from it anymore.

Abby (33:10):

That's right. I love that argument. That it's just water because hold on for a second. It's not, it's filled with all kinds of nutrients, but hold on a second. What if it was just water? Your body's like 70% water. water is like the most healthy thing that you can have in your body. Right. And like, so what if it was water, then you get to have water too. And the nursing relationship. So you're still not talking anyone out of breastfeeding a toddler. Right? This is your breast milk not water. Yeah. But it's not true, but even still, it's a stupid argument.

Dianne (33:45):

So stupid. It is like tell me it turns to poison and then maybe. Tell them it turns to snake venom by the time that the baby's a year, maybe then I'll stop, you know? But come on.

Abby (34:01):

I know. Oh, it turns to water. Oh, no. Oh damn. You're saying, yeah. Right. It's there's like there's breast milk is not just going to have all this amazing nutrients and then just turn to water. I mean, you're not a drinking fountain.

Dianne (34:18):

I mean, all I can think of is like how there's, there's some places in the world where the water is really not safe to drink. So that would be the best option for your child.

Abby (34:29):

That would still be great. So it's like the arguments against it are just like, why are you spending so much time trying to talk people out of doing this? How does it affect you at all.

Dianne (34:41):

Just stop talking.

Abby (34:41):

Yeah. So the one last thing I want to say that does sometimes come up is like latching issues because their mouths are growing and they're getting teeth in there or biting. We can talk about biting for a second, but, um, they, as their mouth gets bigger and they're kind of just continuing to nurse from babyhood, they might need to relearn how to latch so you can like work with them. And it's easier to work with them now because they're a little older. So you can say like, okay, open, wider, you know, and you can get more of your areola in there. If they're starting to do the little shallow kind of just like, I'm just sitting here, not trying at all. And like that does not feel good. You can be like that. Doesn't really feel good. I need you to take more in open wider, you know, when you can just work with them to get a deeper latch, which will be more comfortable for you. And, you know, sometimes with like teeth coming in, there's like, you know, might be rubbing on a certain area of your nipple causing you some pain. So it up try laying down or try, you know, they're toddlers. So they love being in different positions, try a different position, try flipping their legs over your shoulders and nursing that way. Or just to take the pressure off of that area for a little while to give it a rest, um, that can help. And, um, I think that was all I was going to say about the latching. Oh, biting. So biting and toddlerhood, I would say is like not, they kind of learned to not, that's more of like a teething younger thing. Yeah. They're not doing that really at that age. Yeah. You're, you're like two, three, four year olds, not just going to bite your boob. Like they kind of know not to do that. And if they have like, don't yell at me. Okay. Cause of course everything has happened in the world. Um, but I would say the kind of involuntary, like biting thing is kind of a younger thing. They really do kind of stop doing that at some point,

Dianne (36:34):

your biggest risk is getting hit with a fist or something.

Abby (36:37):

or you're getting kicked in the face is really the biggest, um, danger in breastfeeding a toddler. So that's all I've got. And I've talked for a really long time. Sorry, I didn't realize I was gonna talk the whole time.

Dianne (36:48):

No, I got my little clips in about, you know, like if you're a newborn, if you're breastfeeding a newborn right now, don't feel like this is not right for you because yeah, totally different.

Abby (37:02):

It'll be there really fast. And like toddler breastfeeding rules really do. Can, I mean really can start kind of like even before they're one, cause they're going to start getting super active. I mean the boundaries, you got to wait a little while for that. Um, I'd say like a year or 18 months or something to start really like kind of restricting breastfeeding and you know, that kind of thing. Yeah. But, but the rules change quickly. Like you're breastfeeding a newborn there. The newborns are only around for a second. I know it feels like it's forever, but it's really just a second. The rules are going to change really quick. So anyway. Yeah. So enjoy your time. Yes. It goes fast. It does. Thanks for listening. That's so funny. Cause that's in the episode in the podcast ad copy for Sheila Darling is like, if somebody says to you one more time, if this all goes by so fast, you're going to punch him in the face. And this whole episode is us going. Like it all goes by so fast. Don't punch us in the face. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. That was just kind of like, yeah, we've been there. We've been there. Like it, it does feel like it's going by fast, but also feels like it's taking you to turn any and I've also had lots and lots of therapy, so you can give Sheila a call.

Dianne (38:21):

Absolutely. She'll fix you. Bye. Bye.

Speaker 1 (38:37):

[inaudible].